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[personal profile] lobsterdesigns
I've been considering making a wallhanging for my GP for a while now. She is an absolute treasure, and when you have ME you really appreciate that. I noticed that she was wearing turquoise for one visit, which suits me as I adore turquoise. She was here today for blood tests, and she admired the turquoise/pale green baby quilt which I've just started the quilting on. So I think turquoise is definitely the way to go, especially since it works well for a nice cheery wallhanging. It's occurred to me that I might be able to rustle something up for Christmas if I get to work on it now, and I think it would be good for me to do a quick art quilt project. A bit of brainstorming:

* Wallhanging size. Something I could draw out on A3, say.

* Turquoise, perhaps with deep blues. I'll rummage through my considerable batik collection and see what speaks to me.

* I'd like to play with luminescence, the sort of effect you often get with sunsets when one colour glows through pure and strong against darker, more muted tones. It's also high time I did more with depth.

* Curved, flowing lines appeal here, and something abstract and without too much piecing. I can get all swirly in the quilting.

* Something sea-inspired? I am trying to work out what to put into Google Image, as nothing I've thought of so far has really got me anywhere. Seaweed might be a starting point for the shapes.

* BEADS!!!1! I have oodles left over from the Isis quilt.

* I'll need to be able to hand-quilt it, so I don't want to go mad with tiny piecing or lots of layers.

* I've seen some gorgeous effects with organza on art quilts, and this may be a good time to try that. Or perhaps not. Unless I can find something locally (which means sending out someone to pick out stuff for me, I'm too tired for trips out), I don't think there's time to get anything in the Christmas post. I had a look at organza samples on eBay a while back, but the sodding things were all silk and as a vegan I won't use that. Organza ribbons might be an option, since that would solve the problem of frayable bits. I wonder whether the local cake decorating store, which has lots of ribbon, happens to know whether they're silk or polyester? Does anyone know more about using organza or other sheer fabrics on art quilts? How do you sew them on inconspicuously? How do you prevent fraying? If I perhaps did a butted edge, could I then sling on a ribbon as binding? If I go for ribbons, should I go for wide or thin, light or dark, colour matching or something different? I saw a quick collage at the quilt meet last month where putting a strip of dark pink organza onto a blue background, to represent mountains against the sky, added surpring depth.

Ideas are very welcome!

Date: 14 Dec 2010 05:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
When I hear or think of organza on a solid/opaque fabric, I always think first of "shadow applique" in its vintage applications. The only illustrations I ever saw of it---not examples that I was viewing live and in person, sad to say---were of organza appliqueed onto an opaque backing.
What I recall, because this was from a ladies' needleworking type magazine covering knitting, crocheting, appliqueing, reverse-applique in felt (Christmas ornaments in that instance, as I recall), was a stylized floral design with butterflies; the purpose behind using organza was to create a delicate pastel *and* of course to show off the perfect needle skills of the needlewoman doing the work. The effect was that of pastel stained glass, only with much larger pieces, proportionately, and less complex designs.
In that example, it really was just the opaque ground, and the organza shapes overlaid.
The organza pieces, like stained glass pieces, were cut to shape and fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle; they'd have to be since you'd otherwise be seeing one hue through another.
They were basted into place, with the basting stitches very, very close to the raw edge.
Then microscopically fine satin stitch was worked over the raw edges, the stitches just long enough to create an edging just wide enough to cover the cut edges and secure the piece in place.

Just throwing this one out there; if any part of it is useful....

Date: 14 Dec 2010 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
I'm finding it a bit hard to visualise (possibly just because I'm due for a nap), but intriguing. Are you talking about machine satin stitch? Not an option here, of course. I quite frankly loathe doing satin stitch when hand-embroidering, but that doesn't mean that there isn't something embroiderous I could do to cover the raw edges. A neighbour kindly picked up some ribbons for me, and they're all probably wider than I'd use, so cutting into them might happen. Alternatively, of course, I could just get hold of some more ribbon - it's Christmas, spare ribbon will always be useful!

Date: 14 Dec 2010 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Let me see... We're talking about very sheer, but colored fabric.
I'm trying to think of a way to give you a visual....
You know the quilt block "Card Trick?"
http://quilting.about.com/od/quiltpatternsprojects/ig/Free-Quilt-Block-Patterns/Card-Trick-Quilt-Block-Pattern.htm

Done entirely with triangles.
But if you had *squares* of four different colors or patterns of fabric, you could still make that block by appliqueing the four squares, carefully positioned and overlapping, so that they're "fanned" as there appear to be four 'fanned' cards in this block.
OR...Or...you could cut out four L's of each fabric, instead of making either solid squares and overlapping them or making triangles to create the appearance of four fanned cards.
In shadow applique, your *only* viable option is to make the "L's." You can't have overlapping fabric in shadow applique.
In an art quilt, though, overlapping sheers might give you some very interesting visuals!
Loathing satin stitch, though, would be something of a liability if you really wanted to use that technique.

This "shadow applique" is supposedly a late-Victorian/Edwardian craft, or at least was popular at that time.
From what I understand of antique machines it *was* possible to obtain home sewing machines which performed zig-zag stitches but I don't know if they did satin-stitch or not, so I've assumed this was one of those genteel pastimes engaged in by ladies who had enough leisure hours to practice this sort of embroidery----and that the satin stitch was done by hand.
There's an edge-finishing technique from --- I think ---the 16thC which involves making a line of Holbein stitch and then working minuscule buttonhole stitches over it. It's done a little way in from the cut edge and then the extra fabric is cut away. You need a very closely woven, very firmly woven fabric for that, though, so that after the trimming away you don't have a lot of ends of threads looking all and a lot of modern fabrics just don't qualify.

Thinking more on the matter of the detested satin stitch, what if you used a narrow bias strip over the joins?
Or opted for something more practical and more appealing for your purpose (and your time constraints!) than shadow applique?
It was really a rather idle thought. If it's not for you, it's not for you, eh?

Date: 14 Dec 2010 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
O.K.---I had this totally backwards.

Opaque ground.
Colored applique, almost invariably solid colors (as opposed to prints, stripes, or plaids or dots.)
A sheet of organza as an overlay, cut 2" larger all round than the finished work will be.
The organza gets stitched (by hand, presumably) down just at the edges of the applique. "Tiny stitches," but I don't know which stitch or stitches.

That's it, basically. There are some variations (not what I described earlier, though: I think I was just plain wrong) which involve placing a solid color fabric behind a lighter weight white fabric and/or some reverse applique, and then the organza over all.
I'm not describing *this* very well, either, but the effect is very graceful and charming.

I've really been no help here at all. There's about seven inches of snow to be removed from the drive and the pavements, so that'll keep me busy for a while.

Date: 14 Dec 2010 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
You're being really helpful, I'm just a bit brain-dead this evening. I just had a brain-wave while sending someone a photo of my turtle quilt. Here is a possible sketch, inspired by the borders of said quilt. It has the benefit of being nice and quick to piece. The borders would either be ordinary borders made from strips of fabric, or else I could perhaps continue make the curved horizontal pieces run right to the edges and then overlay organza ribbon where I've marked the borders instead.

Sketch for turquoise wall hanging 1

What do you think? Nice and simple, quick to sew, and has plenty of space for beading, perhaps a beaded fringe for instance.

Date: 14 Dec 2010 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Waterlily quilt with organza ribbon overlay

From left to right, the organza ribbons are lavender with a white/rainbow shiny edging, turquoise with a turquoise/rainbow shiny edging, and white with no edging. I'm not sure about the shiny edging, B picked these out for me, but if I don't like them I can always run over the edge with stem stitch, hopefully easier than running over raw organza edges with satin stitch! The quilt I picked out as an example is darker than what I'd be doing, but I felt it needed something with similar curves to get some idea of the effect of using the organza for borders.

If I were to do this, how would it relate to the binding? If I were to go for a ribbon with no edging (or embroider over the edging), I could put binding just at the edge of the ribbon in the usual fashion. Beaded picot edging might be nice but would take forever.

Date: 14 Dec 2010 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Right, I've shoved some suitable fabrics in a nice order, though of course I reserve my right to change those when I do the cutting tomorrow.

Rough fabric layout with organza ribbon 1

Turquoise to left, lavender to right. The lavender seems to photograph better, but I think the turquoise probably looks better in real life. I think we're getting somewhere, and I am losing my dread of shiny ribbon edgings. Still no idea how to bind it, though.

Date: 14 Dec 2010 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
P.S. Bind and *then* lay over organza? Not sure how I'd finish off the edges, though. Bind the sides, lay over the organza, and then bind the top and bottom?

Date: 14 Dec 2010 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Nope, I don't think I like that idea for the binding either. Buggeration. Here's the photo, cropped a bit to each side to reflect the likely proportions better. I'd just grabbed folded pieces of fabric, and it was all a bit smaller than the quilt will be, so the ribbon looked larger and the scale was a bit off. Corrected version:

Rough fabric layout with organza 2

Date: 15 Dec 2010 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emmy-roo.livejournal.com
I think this is just gorgeous.

Me, brainstorming

Date: 14 Dec 2010 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Honey! In all this, you're asking me???
I am the person whose stash is the size it is because I hate making decisions "of this magnitude" and for me it *is* magnitude.
Can't decide between this and that version of a garment in a pattern envelope, so I'll plan on making both; but I also can't decide between this fabric or that one for version A, so I'll opt for "both," again, and realize that IF I do thus-and-so I can make a skirt and a vest/gilet reversible, thereby giving myself two more garments for slightly more than the price of the original two... And if this set of duds is wool, the other set---because of course I'm going to be unable to choose between colors or fabrics in summer weight textiles, too---and that reversible thing works so well....
I'm like a child offered a choice of flavors of ice cream; if we're not going to be all day waiting for me to commit, then just ask me if I'd like an ice cream and if I ask in return, "What flavor?" tell me "Vanilla, of course," and let it go. I don't care if you have the whole Baskin-Robbins stock hidden away in a walk-in freezer in the basement.

Okay---about your quilt design. This is me, offering immediate instinctive responses and some brainstorming of my own, but it's more...it's almost like free-association.
In other words, not carefully thought out, so if it stimulates creative juices, that's good; if it doesn't, just put it from your mind.

I like the blues/turquoise(s)lavender(s).
I love the most dynamic of the curves in your sketch.
There's a design..."aspect" which concerns me in your sketch, and that is the narrow band almost exactly in the middle. It cuts the design in two, into an upper and a lower half. My eye wants to be drawn all the way up and all the way down. Somewhere, that strong horizontal has to change, has to suggest movement. Will it interfere too much if you were to taper one end into nothing, perhaps by moving another line across it?
I like that I seem to be looking at something like dunes, or ocean swells. But there's what feels like a barricade or a big piece of flotsam in the water; an interruption. I feel I've stumbled, stalled, in experiencing what started out as something very organic and fluid.

Regarding the organza ribbons, I'd make sure the binding came over the outer edges, covering them, so the binding would be last.
I do think I'd try to keep the binding very narrow, and show off the quilt's design to the greatest extent possible unless the binding were an organic part of the whole so the quilt would be self-contained and have a definite boundary without having an obvious "frame."
Kind of like the really narrow "frames" of modern paintings. They're there, but they're super unobtrusive. The only "less" frame than those would be no frame at all.
A lot of quilts have you looking through "frames" or "windows'" worth of borders, and this, based on what you've put forward in images so far, seems to want to stand as nearly completely on its own, visually, as possible.

Are you thinking of sewing the inner edges down, or leaving them free? Have you enough ribbon to texture the ribbon? Just the occasional tuck at the outer edge, to make the inner edge undulate, lift above the surface of the quilt? Depending on the direction (up or down) of the tucking, you alter the direction of the swell on the inner edge, just as if you were making half box pleats, or reversing direction on knife-edge pleats in a garment.
Just a random thought.

Oooh--another random thought: Something popped into my little head, a phrase in danger, I suppose, of becoming rather hackneyed, "wine dark sea," and that made me think of an organza overlay or an opaque underlay/ground of a dark, plummish purple, or a deep, bluish-wine red in there...not a lot, but a shadow.... No? That's all right. Not my quilt, not my project...

But, my mind might be wandering. I did mention free-association...

And I have to go back outside---!

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 14 Dec 2010 10:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
How are the 7" of snow getting along? We had crazy snow last week, at least for us. It was actually -16 during the day last Tuesday. The UK isn't used to this kind of weather, so everything has been grinding to a halt.

I'm fairly tired and want to curl up and watch something silly now, so I'll just respond to some bits now and think about it more tomorrow.

The sketch really was something preliminary I threw together in about half a minute. I wasn't quite sure that narrower bit worked either. I can always create narrow lines with beading, and indeed I intend to. (I, er, may have just spent nearly a tenner at a beading site, when I just popped in to get some beading thread.)

Funnily enough, I'm doing this partly because I too keep acquiring more fabrics and overthinking things and having difficulty getting started. I think a quick and dirty project is exactly what I need to loosen up creatively. Also my aunt lectured me this morning on how I need to do more art quilts.

If you mean sewing down the inner edges of the ribbon, I'd assumed that I would sew it down in some manner, yes. I'm not sure I like that shiny edge, so I may just embroider over it with stem stitch or something else easy. It's fairly solid, so I think it should be easy to embroider over.

I've fished out my beading books, and an edging which appeals to me is one where you do a little trio of seed beads about every inch, standing up so that it shows up in the quilt outline, rather than the sort of beading I did on the Isis quilt binding. It's a vaguely similar effect to picot edging, but far less work. And then perhaps a fringe for the bottom, maybe one which starts longer at one side and tapers up to shorter at the end, and/with a curving line to the bottom of the fringe? I think having beading around the other three edges might help balance having beading at the bottom. Of course, I will probably decide this when I get to that point based on what looks right, I'm just throwing around ideas at this point.

Organza overlays - I don't actually have any organza apart from this ribbon, and I don't think there's time to buy anything other than the ribbon sold at my local cake decorating shop. That does sound like the kind of thing I was originally thinking of, but I'm not sure I could do it with ribbon. Another project, perhaps? Meanwhile, do I have any beads in those colours...

So you don't think it will look odd to have that organza ribbon as vertical borders and then binding too? I suppose it would at least add unity.

...and now I'm not sure I even like that organza ribbon border, but I think I will settle down for the night and look at it again tomorrow. A dark organza ribbon might work better.

I don't tend to bother with ice cream, but I do have a ridiculous collection of teas.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 15 Dec 2010 08:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Eeh; perhaps the ice cream analogy was a poor one, because I'm dairy-allergic. Not just lactose-intolerant, but outright allergic.

Now that you've brought it up, I've re-thought it and I'm not so sure about using ribbons in straight vertical lines over that rolling effect of the lines of the sections of the quilt. Lacks harmony, congruity. I like the effect of the organza over top, but the line...not so much.

What if you worked the ribbon along the edge(s) a pieces of fabric in the quilt? What if you place one edge of the ribbon along the cut edge of the piece of fabric, so that it gets sewn down with that piece and is concealed by the next piece of batik? And what if you included the occasional tuck or twist of a piece of organza ribbon, to create texture; leaving one edge of that ribbon free so you get a three-dimensionality to the quilt? It is an art quilt, after all.
In secondary school I had teachers who were mad for texture and dimension. Now I'm wondering if this is something that kicks in at or after a certain point in one's life, or if it just "takes" because it was taught.
**Loving** the idea of a curved fringe at the bottom; may I suggest an S-curve?

You know now you have me curious enough to want to play with some fabrics just to see....

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 15 Dec 2010 09:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
I'm vegan myself! It was only metaphorical ice cream, after all.

We seem to have come to similar conclusions overnight. I woke up deciding to do those borders in fabric instead, perhaps two similar shades. Then perhaps on the left I will embroider and bead a design all down the border strip, and on the right I will put that design in the top half of the border strip and continue the lines of the curves into the bottom half, in which case I need to adjust the design so that the curves in that section will work well together when continued into the border. Right now I'm thinking about very narrow ribbon, and running that along the seam joins of the curves, including spilling over into that bottom right border. I could also couch metallic embroidery thread (or something; that's a fairly horrible job, at least in the quantities I did it for the Isis quilt), use ordinary embroidery threads, satin rattail, lines of beading and so forth. I feel the need to learn how to bead barnacles!

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 15 Dec 2010 10:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Vegetarian, here.
Metaphorical, hypothetical or theoretical ice creams are the very best! ;->

What is rattail, please? And what is satin rattail?

Barnacles? H'mm.... I was getting into the pure, abstract quality of this quilt of yours, without any specific images [*chuckle*] Now you've thrown my little mind a curve---no irony intended.
Beaded barnacles should prove to be quite interesting and quite impressive. I know that in your hands, they will be.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Rattail is thin satin cord, usually between 1mm and 3mm diameter.

Barnacles are just a beading term, because you create roughly that shape. They have a nice 3D effect.

Having been temporarily offline for a day and a half, we now have a shiny new router. I did the piecing today, and here it is. I didn't actually look at the photos of the fabrics I'd shoved together before, and I'm sort of wishing I had because I think they'd have been a bit more dramatic, but I'm sure there is plenty of space for fun here. I went for fabric borders in the end, as I can do exciting embroidery and beading on them and the dark colour will show that up well.

Dr F's quilt - piecing done with binding fabric shown

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Ooh---liking this arrangement *very* much! Abstract, and yet there's something strongly Oriental about it, too, which for me is always mystical as well as exotic. The borders contribute to the scroll-like impression, too.
Soothing, is this, and contemplative, and yet it rather invites one *in,* something an artist friend of mine from ages ago had remarked on regarding Monet's "Les Nympheas." That the painting(s) invited you in, and then held you so you couldn't just leave.

Oh, yes: liking this VERY MUCH, indeed!

I'm finding myself agreeing quite powerfully with your aunt: art quilts are something for you to explore, and do a great deal more of! Yes! [*nod, nod*]



P.S. Thank you for the explanation about the rattail.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Good heavens, you saw a lot in that! I really am flattered. I am also feeling slightly more inspired. I hadn't noticed the oriental side, but that gives me something to investigate and develop. The thing I'm currently stuck on is what sort of shapes to use for beading. Merely following the curves of the piecing would be boring, but I'm a bit nervous about breaking across them. Which of course I should do! It'll be fun to play with, and the beading thread and narrow ribbon and such haven't arrived yet so I have a while to contemplate it before steaming ahead. If at any point you feel like scribbling potential beading lines across it, please do, I'm really valuing your contributions here!

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
"If at any point you feel like scribbling potential beading lines across it, please do, I'm really valuing your contributions here!"

My turn now really to be flattered!

By "scribbling potential beading lines across it," you are referring to...? I don't have photoshop (this isn't my own machine I'm communicating on: mine doesn't have an internet connection.) In fact, it has no graphic program I'm aware of other than Microsoft Paint.

Or did you mean by "scribbling" a scribbling of *text?*

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 04:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Sometimes you can do relatively well with Paint. If you save the picture, you should be able to sketch rough lines on it, if you're that way inclined of course.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Save the picture as in copy and paste? If so, I must have done it incorrectly when I tried that yesterday.

Sometimes I get things exactly right with pc's, and other times I'm completely inept with pc's, computers, and the Internet. Mostly,completely inept.

How do I save the picture and put it into Paint, please?

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Right-click on it and then select "save image as", put it in an appropriate folder with an appropriate name, and then you can open it in Paint.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
W'hoo! Thanks much!
Last week I learned something about embedding (I think that was it, anyway.) And the week or two before that, about making hyperlinks in LJ entries (mine, I mean.)
Oh, don't laugh! I know that for a lot of people, probably most people, this is child's play but I really do have to work hard at it.
(Straightforward e-mail, I learned fairly quickly.)

Thanks again! 8^)

*dashes off to play in Paint*

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 09:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
P.S. Barnacles (with shameless hotlinking):



More intricate barnacles:



And they come from a fabulous-looking beading site which I am now happily bookmarking.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Just bookmarking the post on barnacles on that blog, as there are some really inspiring pictures in her bead journal projects.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 16 Dec 2010 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
P.S. Wow, I really should do a bead journal project as well. I wonder what would be a small thing I could bead every month? Suggestions, anyone? Perhaps a small square, and make them all into a quilt at the end?

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 02:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Small square/s, worked mosaic-style into a border of an art quilt? I realize that a project each month for a year results in only twelve squares, but isn't twelve just what you're committing to? Surely you're not restricted to making *only* twelve?

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Wow! These are fantastic! I had no idea....
Must resist, however. Can't get drawn into yet another art hobby right now...

Is it wrong that I really do prefer the smaller, less complex barnacles in the top image? ;->

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
Not at all!

You could always do a quilt journal project instead. I'm trying to recruit people on my main LJ and over at [livejournal.com profile] quilting, since it turns out that there's already a (dormant) LJ community for this very purpose.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 17 Dec 2010 03:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Oof! I'm in so far over my head and I'm so far behind on so many things right now, that if I committed time and energy to something of that sort, I'd be doing it privately.
One of the things I've enjoyed a great deal about the Quilting community is that I don't feel any pressure---just inspired!

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 15 Dec 2010 09:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
P.S. The 7" of snow have been cleared. Thanks for having asked. We're still getting some Lake Effect flakes falling here and there but it's nothing dramatic right now. And the 7" cleared yesterday was of light, dry flakes instead of great, soggy, heavy snow.
Did you know that wet snow can weigh as much as thirty pounds per cubic foot?

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 14 Dec 2010 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elettaria.livejournal.com
P.S. I posted about the edging problem on [livejournal.com profile] quilting, and [livejournal.com profile] jelazakazone has solved it for me by finding me instructions on putting on a facing. Now that it's sunk in how it works, it does sound a good option.

Re: Me, brainstorming

Date: 15 Dec 2010 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virginiadear.livejournal.com
Ooh, yes! This will be a very useful concept! :-)
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